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Maude DeVictor In & On Nicaragua

By VVAW

Interview with "Mother of Agent Orange" on Recent Trip

(The following interview was done for THE VETERAN by Maureen A Dolan; its subject is Maude DeVictor whom many vets remember as the "Mother of Agent Orange." As a VA worker in Chicago, Maude put together their case histories of enough vets to ask some of the questions about Agent Orange exposure which eventually made vets and the American public aware of what had been done to us.)

Ms Dolan: Would you explain how and why you decided to go to Nicaragua?

Ms De Victor: I went to Nicaragua for the entire month of February this year as part of a harvest brigade, which had a sub group of veterans. I went on a scholarship from the Nicaragua exchange. The main reason for my going was that we Blacks of the U.S.—the have-nots of North America—are not getting the true picture of what is actually going on in Nicaragua.

Nicaragua is a small country about the size of Massachusetts, with about 3 million people. The average age in Nicaragua is about 24. This is a 3rd World country whose population is smaller than Chicago and does not pose a security threat to the U.S.

The Reagan Administration is trying hard to whip up public support for its intervention policy in Central America. Its hope is that enough propaganda will become a manufactured reality.

We need to recall the time when Martin Luther King got involved in stopping the Vietnam War. There was a sentiment among Blacks of taking care of our own as there is now with fighting the Administration's policies at home. But, at a crucial point in time we began to see how related the fight for civil rights and the fight against intervention was; Blacks had originally been brought to the U.S. to boost the economy as slaves. U.S. intervention in Central America is also for U.S. profit.

Nicaragua solidarity groups are seeing the importance of outreach to Latinos and Blacks in the U.S. We are brothers and sisters in the kinds of oppression we have faced. The scholarship I received enabled me to go in and observe, ask questions and formulate a package of information whereby Black Americans, Native Americans, Latinos, etc make the connections, develop a seeking mind, and perhaps even go there to see for themselves.

Q. How has the embargo affected this?

A. This was a profound move on Reagan's part. One of the effects is that it has affected American's constitutional right of travel—which is as important as the right to vote. We shouldn't just depend on Ronald Reagan or Dan Rather as our only sources for what goes on in other countries. It was only one flight a day but an important source of revenue to Nicaragua. It was a way for North Americans to go directly there to gain personal knowledge. Now we have to go other ways.

Q. Could you describe some of the changes going on in Nicaragua?

A. Nicaragua is functioning like a UN pilot program. We hear always about the number of Cubans and Rumanians but there are representatives of many countries learning in Nicaragua and contributing to the development there. For instance, the Finish parliament gave 12% of its national budget in foreign aid to Nicaragua to help develop a dairy system and hospitals. Austrians sent technical brigidistas with computer expertise. There are also West German and Swiss cultural brigades. It is interesting to see retired Sorbonne professors chipping in, even getting their hands dirty in some cases. The Canadians are helping to develop a co-op farming system.

The spirit prevalent in Nicaragua is that great things are possible and everyone is part of building the country up.

Look at the literacy program. Rightwing, leftwing, any wing, how could you possibly be against something which helps people become more fully developed as human beings? In 5 years the literacy rate has jumped from 12% t0 50%. Through this program every household got hands-on-experience with the revolution. Every citizen brushed up against it in one way or another. The common people are meeting world-class political strategists. There is a spirit of a common bond of humankind. One crucial thing I learned was that propaganda is not just a whole lot of sound—not just rhetoric—but visual and tactile experience.

Under Somoza, the people could not learn to read, did not have enough to ear, and could not govern themselves. It is very different now.

I could travel freely in Nicaragua—in some ways more so than in the U.S. I weaved down rides from campesinos. There were no restrictions.

The militarization is overstated. We have received a one-sided view. The Nicaraguans are serious about protecting themselves but I have heard more gunshots at 79th and Halsted in Chicago than I did when I was in Nicaragua. As a veteran I noticed the difference in the military there. Nicaragua sends its recruits to school first and then people go to military serve. Here, in many cases, you have to spill your blood first, perhaps risk you life, before the U.S. government is willing to pay for your education. Theirs is a more humanistic approach.

One of the things that struck me as so different from the U.S. was that, in Nicaragua, workers are held in high regard. Every union official in the U.S. go there and see that the workers are not just some cog in the wheel but are treated as valued human beings. When we were picking coffee, we said every bean we pick is one less for the contras. And more for the people. (And there's an awful lot of coffee in them hills!)

Q. How are ex-Somoza supporters treated?

A. There are people from the upper classes who still have their fancy homes, phones and swimming pools (but there is no chlorine for the pools). These people are not under house arrest but have socially distanced themselves by choice from the exciting task of building the country. The rubber plantations, etc have been confiscated, but only after a period of non-productivity. After all, the Nicaraguan revolution concerns class struggle. Nicaragua is a very beautiful country with many resources. It is similar to Vietnam with its supply of rubber, tin, oil and the prevalence of water.

Q. Can you describe some of the effects of U.S. policy in the Central American region?

A. Actions by the Reagan Administration give us important lessons. One was the protocol for Grenada. The Administration viewed the Grenadian invasion as proof that the non-Caucasoid would kill non-Caucasoid for Caucasoid. The government purposely used the 82nd Airborne staffed with different oppressed nationalities. It was their hidden agenda to prove that Blacks would kill Blacks.

Operation Big Pine was a lesson to us, as well. American Congressmen did not vote to send troops and equipment there for war games. The troops got rotated out but the equipment—tons of it—remains, functioning as 18-month interim funding for the contras. Many people are not aware, either, that there are many retired U.S. military officers who own big farms in Honduras and Costa Rica. The current decision on humanitarian aid along with these supplies has a chilling effect on total balance of power in the area. If we were serious about humanitarian aid it would go to children in Lebanon or in the Bronx or on Indian reservations.

I was filmed by NBC at the Intercontinental Hotel when I arrived and when I returned. Reporters have as much access to information as I did. Whether by their own bias or the fact that their reports get butchered when they are sent back Miami, the U.S. public is not receiving the full picture. For instance, we don't hear of the weekly protests by North American citizens residing in Nicaragua outside the U.S. consulate. We are not getting the truth about what the contras are up to, especially the fighting in the primarily Black populated Bluefields area.

The Reagan Administration wants to dictate to Nicaragua how it is to run its country, like someone busting into on operating room and taking over from the doctors and nurses.

Our government officials are making a big deal out of Ortega's visit to the Soviet Union, not mentioning that the visited other countries as well. Perhaps, the U.S. would have the right to get angry if it had volunteered aid and been turned down, but that is not the case.

Nicaragua did not spurn the U.S. government; it was the other way around. The Nicaraguans do not want anyone telling them what to do. They will accept aid, but each offer is looked at for what is gained and what is to be given up. They are not about to give up their hard-won independence.

The Nicaraguans know that Reagan is not the spokesperson for North American. They have seen with their own eyes many different kinds of people from different walks of life—even doctors and lawyers put on blue-jeans and help them learn from them. They see the distinctions between the U.S. government and the U.S. people.

Q. Most North Americans don't know that much about Nicaragua and its people. Could you describe some of the different kinds of people who make up the population?

A. We have much to learn from Nicaragua's rich culture and the different political forces building up the country. There are six cultures in Nicaragua. They included the Spanish, the Suma Indians, The Miskito Indians, the Afriques (with ties to African culture) and Creoles, with similarities to the Virgin Islands people.

The Pacific side was more subjugated under Spanish influence. The Atlantic side kept much of its cultural identity. This is why Sandino said that the moral and economic victory of the revolution would be won on the Atlantic side. While the Spanish side incorporated some elements of Spanish macho emotionalism, the Atlantic side, influenced by the Moravian Church, experienced over 200 years training in elementary logic as an overlay of their culture. The terrain served to separate the cultures. The Atlantic side is very much like equatorial Africa, with a water-based culture, which has a broader protein base, including different kinds of fish, turtle meat (which is rich in vitamins and has an anti-aging element), 7 kinds of yams, sugarcane, yucca, mangos, bananas, etc. Because of this, the multinational conglomerates were more concentrated on the Atlantic side.

The different cultures experienced different forms of oppression and resistance. Under Somoza, the Pacific side experience the overt repression shown by blood on the sidewalk, the rapes, the disappeared, and the people fought valiantly against that oppression. On the Atlantic side, the company store and the long hours in the fields of the campesinos brought other forms of resistance. There is a long history of Nicaraguans fighting for their independence. I remember one story of the Miskito women swimming across coral reefs through shark-infested waters to get supplies from one of Sandino's boats.

Q. Can you describe some of the class differences?

A. Different trends with different histories support the revolution. For instance, an entrenched middle class grew under Somoza and through the Moravian church network. These people travelled and became educated as doctors and lawyers, etc.. They were literate and worldly and expected to lead the government. But the campesinos say "we did make revolution to replace Somoza with an intellectual elite." They maintain that everyone has a place in governing, not just a few. The lifestyles of those who united with the Sandinistas were different from those who automatically thought they were entitled to govern.

What many North Americans don't realize is that the Sandinistas want their country to survive and prosper—else there would be no need for their party. Also, many people do not realize that there are many forces who were and are involved in building the new Nicaragua. And they did it on their own. It is a unique situation—they took the best from democracy, Marxism, tribalism, the churches, and mixed the best elements together. The Nicaraguans deserve their chance and our support.

Q. You mentioned before the importance of Black Americans learning about Nicaragua. Could you expand on this?

A. Freedom is a yearning and a sense we are born with and sometimes take for granted. Liberation is a catharsis with a cultural and political orientation. The Nicaraguan revolution has set up the conditions to support freedom in its culture and politics. There you get a vision of all being possible, that each person can develop to his or her fullest. You don't get the signal you are crazy for wanting freedom. It is not the same signal we Black Americans grew up with here with separate water fountains. When I see President Reagan handing out a Medal of Freedom, or something, to one of his friends, I just say cancel that thought, Maude. That will not happen to you. In the U.S. the government does not honor you for trying to accomplish something for the people.

But we cannot glamorize the revolution. Conditions are not easy. One Afrique woman, who looked like she was straight from Ethiopia, asked me to give her something to "remember you by." I had some things like a flashlight and needle and thread. When I gave her the thread, she broke down crying, and hugged me. Thread costs 70 cordebas a spool. There are many shortages of things like that—scissors, Q-tips, which the Nicaraguans have not seen for years, things we take for granted. Reagan would have you believe that all Nicaraguans want are guns and grenades.

Not many Blacks from the U.S. have been to Nicaragua. There need to be more. The Black leaders in the U.S. need to pay attention to what is happening in Central America. We need to find out the fact for ourselves and educate our people. We cannot afford to listen to a bunch of old, white power-hungry men, but must learn the truth for ourselves.

Q. What are some ways North Americans can learn more and do more about the situation in Nicaragua?

A. First, if it is possible, go to Nicaragua yourself. Help organize through church groups here. One of the women on our brigade was a nun from a primarily Spanish-speaking school in the States, and she picked coffee right beside me.

To the youth I say, if you want to travel, by all means go to Nicaragua, but don't go through the military to get there. We don't need to encourage more gravediggers. It would be good for our churched to sponsor youth to learn from the Nicaraguan experience. It would be great if our kids could earn college credits from the learning experience down there. The brigade experience should be more universally implemented.

Second, contact solidarity groups here and learn from the speakers and films and slide shows available. Educate yourself and other people.

Third, get involved in material aid campaigns in order to help send much-needed everyday items like band-aids, etc.

Fourth, keep up a steady flow of communication with your Congressman through phone calls and letters, opposing U.S. intervention in Central America.

Fifth, and this is more long-term: We need to take a global approach to events like what has happened in Nicaragua. We need a monitoring device under the auspices of the UN—perhaps a citizens' review panel. For one thing our youth should be encouraged to learn Spanish, particularly because, in the hemisphere we live in, Spanish is the language which predominates. And our youth need to be more realistically educated in order to be vigorous leaders for the 21st century. Finally, there needs to be a cultural depository—artisans and craftspeople who can produce unique craftwork of the country and make it available all over the world, and perhaps an intellectual exchange to share Nicaragua's beauty.

I would like to conclude by saying that there are people like Reagan who would rather turn back history, who hold certain outdated precepts which are non-functional in a technologically advanced world; their ideas could unleash terrible destruction. We have a stake in upholding the Nicaraguans right to self-determination. There are no absolutes expect in nature. You cannot outlaw a rainbow from the sky.